Zuva Chinhori & Jijo Jonny

[00:00]

Zuva Chinhori, Live-in Carer and Trainer: Death in care, regardless of how it comes about, especially if you've grown very close with the family, it's as if you're losing your own family.

Tobi Alli-Usman: Hi, I'm Tobi Alli-Usman, founder of Smooth Digital [Smooth Digital, now Prosperwell], and this is Tea with Tobi, the podcast that shines the light on the care sector and helps businesses, staff and care workers provide the very best care. The past year has been the most challenging in the history of the care sector. The UK care industry has experienced over 20,000 COVID-related deaths. Dozens of staff have died. Last June alone, nearly all of the COVID-19-related deaths were in care homes. So we decided for season four we want to shine a spotlight on 2020. We wanted to look at the timeline of events, analyse why 2020 was so difficult, highlight the incredible people who saved care, and understand what needs to be done for the care industry going forward.

In the upcoming season we will hear from carers, academics, CEOs, industry leaders and analysts. We will get a first-hand account of life on the front line, we'll review the effectiveness of the government's response, and we'll discuss how the care industry has been changed by the pandemic, what we can do to protect the sector for 2021 and, most importantly, we will hear how the industry stood together in times of illness and social distancing with solidarity and compassion. Please join me in this very special season of Tea with Tobi.

On this special episode of Tea with Tobi, we have two guests. I wanted to get an insight into what life was really like on the front line, directly from the mouths of carers themselves. So I spoke to live-in carer and trainer Zuva Chinhori, and care assistant and founder of Meet My Brian, which is a sponsor of Tea with Tobi, Jijo Jonny.

[02:07]

In the first half of the show, we will hear Zuva relay her experiences of the past 12 months. She will explain why death in care feels like losing a family member, and how damaging classifying care work as unskilled is to the sector. And in part two of the show, Jijo will inform us on what life was really like in care homes during lockdown, how Meet My Brian can help solve the problem of visitation during the pandemic, and Jijo shares the horrifying story of when he, his wife and newborn son all contracted COVID-19. But first, let's hear from Zuva and why she started a career in care. Zuva, great to have you on the show.

Zuva: Thank you, thank you so much for having me. It's so weird, because I watch your podcast on YouTube, so to be honest it's such a surreal experience.

Why Zuva chose a career in care

[03:00]

Tobi: I think we're going to learn so much from your perspective, and I think it really does need to be heard, so I'm excited myself as well. But let's start with this: why did you choose a career in care?

Zuva: When I started, this was back in 2015. Previously I had health problems. This was between 2009 and about 2015. I was in and out of hospital a lot, and that experience of having people look after me showed me what good care looks like, because I believe those people looked after me very, very well. Then, when it came to 2015, I did want to do something else with my life, because I've done different jobs throughout. I've worked in warehouses and all that kind of stuff. I felt I really wanted to do something with myself that I would feel actually matters.

Live-in care before the pandemic

Tobi: Awesome. So let's rewind back in time. If you can, help describe the situation, let's say December of 2019. What was going on with work? How many people were you caring for at that time?

[04:03]

Zuva: I was doing live-in care work. I'd go from home to home. I wasn't with one client all the time, so I might do a few weeks here and then a few months there, that type of stuff. In fact, all of 2019 I was going to different homes, and I wanted to do that to gain as much experience in live-in care as possible and work with different kinds of clients.

Tobi: Awesome. So, the question: when was the first time you heard the words COVID-19?

Zuva: We did hear it around about December, when it was being talked about in China, but as live-in carers, I don't think it was taken quite seriously until about February of 2020, the early parts of 2020. When we first heard about it, we just thought it's a thing happening in China, really, nothing else. But it started being taken more seriously, particularly with the agencies that I was working with, around about February 2020, I would say.

[05:20]

Tobi: I can agree with that. I try not to listen to the news as much as possible, so I think I heard about it in January of 2020, say about mid-January. I was in an open-plan kitchen in the office. We have a shared service office, and I was actually overhearing someone else's conversation, and one thing that I did notice was there was absolutely no fear in their voice. They didn't seem worried, and it was quite dismissive as well. So I wonder if we all understood what this would be. I can speak for myself: definitely not.

Zuva: I didn't see it. Look, almost one year later or whatever it is, we're still here. I never would have thought this would happen. Definitely not.

How lockdown affected live-in carers

Tobi: How did it first affect your role, and how did it affect the people you cared for initially?

Zuva: I think the big effects came when the first lockdown was announced, which was, I think, April. I was already in a placement, so I was quite OK, because the placement I was in, we weren't going outdoors anyway, so it wasn't that big a deal. But for a lot of carers, actually, they were in a placement that was, let's say, about to finish, and then they'd be asked, please can you stay longer than you had planned for, because it was safer to keep them there than bring in somebody else. So some carers ended up working, I know one lady, she's finishing at the end of this January, 2021, and she's been with this person since about May or something. So she had to just stay. That's the big effect that it had.

[07:02]

And then, in terms of people who were receiving care, especially elderly people with dementia, you can explain to them, this is what's happening, there's a lockdown, et cetera, et cetera, but they still don't understand why they can't see their family. For me, witnessing that has been the biggest effect. Forget PPE and all these other issues that were there. It's just the fact that people could no longer see their families and have that connection that they used to have before the lockdown. That was the biggest effect for people who were receiving care, especially elderly people, because they really rely on that family support, or even if it's friends, people that they're close to. It's so, so important for them, and because they couldn't visit each other as normal, that had a huge effect on a lot of people that I personally worked with.

[08:06]

Tobi: So let's stay on this subject for a little bit. I think it was actually March the 16th, 2020, when the first lockdown was announced, so let's focus on that period. What was one of the most challenging times for you during that first lockdown?

Zuva: I was quite lucky. The placement I had at that time was, like I said, an elderly lady who stays indoors all the time, so it wasn't so much a challenge from my perspective. But speaking to other carers, they had bigger challenges, because they've got family members of their own, and this is a thing affecting everybody. So suddenly, OK, I'm here at work looking after somebody, but I don't know how my own family is doing, and that brought distress to people, especially people that have children.

Tobi: So, for the people that don't know about live-in care, this is literally carers who had a plan that they were going to stay for a period and look after someone, and then because of the lockdown they were forced to stay there for an extended period and they couldn't go back to actually see their family.

[09:15]

Zuva: Yes. In the life of a live-in carer, you're going to somebody's house for a week or months or whatever it is anyway, except this time there was no choice about having to leave. Eventually things did get better, but initially it was, look, everybody's trying to figure out what's going on, please can you just stay, and it just made sense. But the distress of not being able to see their own family members, that choice being taken away from them, even though it was a temporary thing, it still did bring a lot of people anxiety and distress.

Tobi: That sort of stuff is super tough. And what about the people you cared for? Around the time of the lockdown, that's when things really dialled up from a social distancing element, a PPE element, an isolation element. How did it impact the people you cared for?

[10:30]

Zuva: I think it was more so if you were working with people with dementia. I remember I had a lady at one point who had vascular dementia, which meant that her short-term memory was going. You could have a conversation and she understood whatever you were talking about, but she just didn't understand, why am I not seeing my daughter again, why is she not here? And then constantly having to repeat that, because obviously her short-term memory was going. In the moment they might be able to understand what you said, that there's a lockdown, so she can't come, because this is what's happening all over the country, but eventually you start to see them feel like it's being prevented, that they're not being allowed to see their family. They've understood what you said, but for them it actually begins to feel like it's a punishment.

One of the things that personally made me upset, just watching that, is how difficult it was for them to not see their family that they're used to seeing all the time, or even just your neighbour not popping in so frequently. Those small changes made a big difference, especially to elderly people, because routine is so important for them.

Keeping people connected

[11:50]

Tobi: Have you got any examples of where some of your colleagues or yourself went really above and beyond in providing the very best care you can during that period?

Zuva: I think the most people did was really getting people connected, because for a lot of elderly people, Facebook and video technology is a whole different world. So I really saw a lot of people making sure, look, what can we do to keep people connected to their families? So if it meant teaching people how to use Facebook, or how to use WhatsApp for video calls, whatever it was, I saw a lot of that. And for me personally, I remember, it wasn't even necessarily to do with the virus, it was just because this would be a good idea. This lady, it was her 94th birthday. I promise you, this is the fittest lady you've ever met. She's so healthy, she's healthier than me. Her 94th birthday was coming up, and her family's all over the country, and she had a sister as well who was up north, and at that time up north was getting a lot of cases.

[13:08]

So I thought, OK, what can I do? Obviously they can't celebrate her birthday together, all these family members. So it was a case of going on Facebook to look for this relative, getting her grandchildren involved, great-grandchildren involved, everybody: can you just send me a video to my WhatsApp? I put it all together for her and then gave it to her on the morning of her birthday, because she was convinced, she was like, look, I'm not going to see my family. She really wanted to see her great-grandbaby, who's two years old. So I said, OK, I know I can get these people together somehow, let's get this video going. And just seeing her face on that morning. For them, it was something they would never have thought about, that actually I can still stay connected with my family this way. There were a lot of examples like that, of a lot of people just helping people stay connected, because that's probably what was needed the most, more than anything else.

Clap for Carers

[14:01]

Tobi: I want to talk to you about the Clap for Carers initiative. What were your thoughts on that?

Zuva: You know what, from a positive perspective, it's nice to see carers being celebrated, because for a long time, if you looked at the media, anything that was around carers, support workers, whatever, was always the negative stuff, like abuse. If you look at even the BBC documentaries of hospitals and care assistants or nurses being bad, it was all negative, negative, negative. So for the first time, it was nice to see care work being celebrated, and people recognising that actually they are such a vital part of our society as a whole. Forget COVID, but as a society, it was nice to see people celebrating that these people are a vital part of the country we live in. So for me it was nice to see that, because I've never seen that in my time, or maybe I just don't know enough, but I've never seen carers being celebrated. We hear about doctors or nurses or whatever, but not the low-level workers being supported. So for me, that was a nice thing to see, for sure.

Is care work low skilled?

[15:10]

Tobi: Absolutely. I want to touch on something you just mentioned, when you gave the example of doctors and lower-level staff. Now, you've been in care for a number of years and you know how challenging it is. What do you feel about the government categorising care work as low skilled?

Zuva: If you'd asked me this question in the beginning, before I had much experience, I would have taken quite a lot of offence to that. But now that I've had more experience, and matured also in my perspective, I think it's simply a case of misinformation. If you've never experienced something, it's like, I don't know what it's like to do what you do. I might say, oh, this is not a necessary thing, because I don't know what's required of it. So that opinion is coming from a place of no experience, because anybody who's experienced this will tell you this is by far not a low-skilled job at all. So I can take offence, or realise that these are just people that don't know better, and are probably judging it based on metrics, or if you haven't got a degree for this or that, then it isn't a skill. But actually, if you look at the things required to be a really good live-in carer, empathy, these are things that top-level companies are training their staff for now, the soft skills.

Tobi: Absolutely.

[17:00]

Zuva: And it comes naturally to us. So now, they can say low skill this and that, but I know this is beyond anything. It's not low skill at all.

Tobi: Absolutely, and there are many leaders of care associations who are really rallying and pushing that message on to the government to change that perception, so it's just so refreshing hearing that from you. In the sector there is a recruitment and retention issue, and one of the things we've seen with our clients as well is we really do try to encourage them to look outside of the sector to bring more people in, instead of just recycling the same batch of carers who are maybe job hopping and had a terrible experience. We've actually seen statistically that the companies that employ carers from outside of the sector, give them some good training, give them love, they actually stay longer and they remain in the sector, and it's so fulfilling. It's something that I guess they wouldn't experience until they've actually done the role.

Zuva: Exactly, exactly.

Losing people to COVID-19

[18:10]

Tobi: I want to play devil's advocate at the same time, because it definitely is fulfilling, but it's really challenging. Did you or your colleagues ever experience any coronavirus-related deaths?

Zuva: Personally, not myself, but I've got a large community on Facebook where people talk about the challenges they're going through, and there have been some carers who talked about losing people to the virus, people they were caring for, or a family member of somebody they were caring for, that type of stuff. So yes, we've seen that happen. Death in care, regardless of how it comes about, especially if you've grown very close with the family, it's as if you're losing your own family member. And it's also scary, because especially for people who were thinking, oh, this virus thing, it's not real, and then suddenly you're told this person's passed away because of coronavirus, it hit home. It hit home for a lot of people, and made it real that nobody is safe from this thing. That's the general conversation that was going on in our community.

[19:40]

Tobi: It's heartbreaking. In my extended family, I had two uncles who passed away, and like you say, it does become such a reality. Previously, when you hear the news and they say deaths are going down, it's only down to 300, you think, OK, that's good, that's going down. But knowing that within that number there are friends and there's family, it becomes so real, and you really get to realise, wow, these are lives, in the hundreds and the thousands, right now.

Lessons learned

So, looking forward a little bit, what sort of constructive things or lessons learned do you think came out of this pandemic and experience?

[20:30]

Zuva: It's actually something Matt Hancock said. He did a speech at, is it the Royal College of Physicians or something, and he talked about the seven lessons learned. For me, that was one of the best speeches ever. He listed the seven things they've learned from this pandemic, which I'll just grab for a second. He was speaking at the Royal College of Physicians in July, and lesson one was value our people. What he says is, the first is that we must value our people and trust them as professionals. Then he goes on to say a little bit more, and he's not talking about just doctors and nurses. He says, and when I say people, I mean all of our people: care workers, porters, cleaners, clinicians, leaders. So the whole sector, valuing them and seeing them as professionals. Hearing that kind of stuff coming from government level, for me, is a positive thing. It's inspiring, it gives me hope, because for years we've not really seen the government take the low-level people as skilled, or whatever you want to call it.

[21:40]

Tobi: The words low level, they were hurting me a little bit. I've got a colleague in the space who talks about how powerful language is, and I think although it's been perceived, and I'm doing quotation marks for anyone that's listening to the audio, as low level, we should change the language to frontline staff and valued care staff. We need to change the language to change the perception, because this is a time in history, and right now these are the heroes.

Zuva: It's true. There is a stigma associated with the term carer, and I think that comes from the fact that care has been reduced. When people hear the word carer, all they think of is changing incontinence pads and helping somebody to the toilet, that's it, when there's so much more to it.

Where to find Zuva

[22:40]

Tobi: So where can people learn more about Zuva? I'm sure you might get quite a lot of people reaching out to you, carers, live-in carers, and also I think some care providers would love your perspective and fresh insight as well. So where can people get in contact with you?

Zuva: Facebook. I'm very, very heavily on Facebook if it's for carers. I've got a YouTube channel as well where I post videos, but again, that's more carer related. If care providers wanted to get in touch with me, I'm very big on LinkedIn. Well, I'm not big on LinkedIn, but I am available on LinkedIn.

Tobi: Awesome. Zuva, thank you so much. It's been refreshing, it's been so useful hearing your perspective, and I'm sure the listeners will get a load of value from this. So, Zuva, thank you.

Zuva: Thanks very much, Tobi.

[23:30]

Tobi: I think Zuva's statement that there is a stigma around the word carer is so telling. Despite how much the country relies on the vital work carers do, it amazes me how we continue to lack respect for live-in carers. What live-in carers like Zuva have gone through in the past year is unbelievable.

I also wanted to learn what it was like to be a frontline worker in a care home. Although Jijo Jonny is the founder of our sponsor Meet My Brian, he's also a care worker, and was called to return to homes in the last 12 months due to staff shortages. I wanted to learn more about Meet My Brian, and what working in care homes during a pandemic was actually like. But first, let's hear more on Jijo's background in care.

Jijo's background in care

[24:30]

Jijo Jonny, Founder, Meet My Brian: Thank you, Tobi. Thanks for having me on this podcast.

Tobi: Awesome. Can you give the listeners a bit of background on your career history, and an insight into how you got into the world of care?

Jijo: Yes, sure. I came to the UK in 2009 to do my BSc Nursing at the University of Northampton. At the time I started working as a care assistant in one of the nursing homes. It was an Interlea care home in Northampton, and I became a qualified nurse in 2013. So it will be about 12 years in the care home sector this coming September 2021. I've only worked in the care home sector. I didn't work in hospital. I also had an opportunity to go and work outside the care home sector, especially when I completed my MBA, but I always thought there was something for me to do in this sector, and here I am. Meet My Brian was just a part of my journey, and I believe that it is going to be something useful for the care home sector from now on.

The story behind Meet My Brian

[25:50]

Tobi: So what is the background and back story of Meet My Brian? How did it come about?

Jijo: As I said, I've been working in this sector since 2009, as a care assistant and then as a nurse, and you see the family connections in care homes and the number of times they come to visit. When I came to the UK, I saw the family connections, the love towards elderly people, which was beyond what I knew, and I was so shocked and amazed by the intimacy between the family members. It's not a dumping place for them. They always kept that connection going. And when this COVID pandemic hit the nursing homes, they closed the doors. I couldn't believe I was working in a nursing home, because it was totally new to me. It had never happened. I can't say there was a day that I didn't see any relatives. At least one family member would come to see their family in the nursing home. So when it completely stopped, I started to think about what's going to be the future, because I was sure, right from the beginning, when the whole world stopped and went into lockdown, that it's not a simple thing. It's going to take some time to get back to normal.

[27:00]

So how are we going to manage the family connection? At the time I thought we need to have a system, and that was the time that I spoke to Pat, Brian's wife, and I got the name. But that was the idea. It was the pandemic, the separation from the families, that made me think about having a system for the care home sector.

Tobi: And what does the system do, briefly?

Jijo: Before, care homes never closed their doors to relatives. They could come in any time and visit their family members whenever they wanted to. But because we've got the risk of COVID-19, and the elderly are very vulnerable to contracting it and dying from it, we can't have that whole system. So we will be having controlled visits. They will have to make an appointment, they come, and we will do the risk assessment, we will ask them some questions, do the temperature and all those things. That process could be cumbersome, especially when they're going to make phone calls, and everybody needs a sort of freedom. They might make an appointment to come and see their mum or dad or brother or sister or daughter or son today at 11 o'clock, but then something else comes up, so maybe they will phone up and say, sorry, we can't come.

[28:03]

All these things are going to create a lot of problems inside the home, because of the staff shortages and the level of care required by the residents, and the staff need to get them ready and bring them down to the visitors' pod or a visitors' room. All those things could create a lot of problems. But Meet My Brian is going to solve all these cumbersome processes by having an online facility. They can just book it online, so the staff can see on the other side who is coming, whether they have completed the risk assessment or not, whether they have been tested or not, and all those things. So that's what Meet My Brian is going to do.

Tobi: And what's the inspiration behind the name?

Jijo: Brian is one of the residents that I looked after at the time. Pat, the family, were constantly on the phone asking how he was doing and everything. This lady always asked, when do you think I can come and meet my Brian? How is my Brian? So Meet My Brian, to me, was quite catchy, and seeing their relationship, the love between them, and every possible opportunity she could come and see him, he was so happy to see her. It was a beautiful love story, so I thought that's the best name to have.

First hearing about COVID-19

[29:30]

Tobi: Well, actually, I'd be interested to know: when was the first time you heard the words COVID-19?

Jijo: I heard COVID-19, but I wasn't really bothered about it, because I'd heard about Ebola, I'd heard about SARS, I'd heard about dengue, plenty of things, Nipah virus, but I never bothered, because in our minds we know, OK, it's there, it's in Africa, it's in China, it's in that place, I'm not going to be affected. That was my thought when I heard briefly about COVID-19 in December. I must admit that I wasn't paying a lot of attention to the news at the time, because I had another start-up, Gianna Care, which I thought would be going live in February or March. We were sorting out the final paperwork and things, so it was quite busy at the time, and I wasn't really paying attention to the impact that this virus was having. I was a bit late to understand how it was messing up our world.

[30:50]

My wife, we were suspecting that she was pregnant at the time, so she was having rest, and she had plenty of time to read all these things that were going on and listen to all the news, so she was quite updated, and I was a bit slow to understand COVID-19. But I think I understood the seriousness by the beginning of January.

Tobi: And what was the moment that you realised this thing was really serious?

Jijo: When I didn't see any relatives in the care home for a few days. I think that is the time I really understood how tough that situation is, how difficult and how serious it is.

Lockdown in the care homes

Tobi: So as we moved into March, the official lockdown happened. What was the reaction from the residents?

[31:40]

Jijo: Where I was at the time, in the two or three homes, there was mild dementia. I clearly remember one resident losing her memory altogether. She couldn't understand what was going on, especially at the time when that nursing home was isolating the residents inside their rooms. They didn't bring them to the lounge, and that continued for more than a week or so. That was something I felt was serious, because they had a routine of coming to the lounge, participating in activities and seeing other residents and everything, and suddenly being in their room, I think that was something that seriously affected them. But I think it was only for one week or two at the time, because there was no clear guidance at the time. When I worked in a different home at the same time, I didn't see that, because the residents were coming to the lounge and everything. So the nursing homes were managing at their own discretion at the time, and if they had flu-like symptoms, they were isolating them, that kind of thing.

Tobi: For the people that are not aware, what was the government guidance at that time?

[33:04]

Jijo: I think there was a lot of confusion, especially around PPE. Even the government was saying the mask is not really necessary. I was working as bank staff in one of the care homes at the time, doing one shift, and I remember one staff member came with a mask, and the nurse in charge at the time said, you cannot work with the mask, because at the time it was not mandatory, and she had bought it herself. It was weird, because we were about five or six people and only one person with a mask, and that person had brought it with her, and the nurse was saying you cannot wear the mask. But we can't blame anybody at the time, can we, because nobody knew what to do, and at the time even the government wasn't really strict about the mask. Many people thought that it was not going to stop the spread or anything. Some people thought the mask was spreading the virus, that if you're wearing it, you're carrying the virus and taking it to another person. That's what the general assumptions were.

Tobi: Yes, there was a period of time, is the mask mandatory? At the beginning it wasn't.

Jijo: And what do you think? When do you think you realised, as a person, the importance of masks, that it is going to stop the spread of the virus?

[34:15]

Tobi: I first learned about COVID quite late, in January of 2020.

Jijo: That was a bit earlier, that's right.

Tobi: At that time I was overhearing a conversation. In our open-plan office we've got a shared kitchen, so other businesses were there having a conversation, and at that point I thought, I'm going to just buy a couple of masks for the team. I just thought to buy them, just to have them, just in case, and I think I got the idea from one of the company directors. But I didn't think it was serious until around February for me, when I was going to celebrate my mum's 60th. We were going off to Jamaica, and they closed the borders, and I thought, OK, this thing is really serious. That was in February. Jamaica closed the borders much earlier than, say, the UK, and I realised, OK, this is really affecting our lifestyles now, the whole family.

[35:30]

Jijo: But do you think at the time the same level of seriousness was given to the care homes? They closed the borders, we stopped the visitors coming, the carers, in the nursing homes, but do you think the precautionary measures that needed to be taken in care homes, and the PPE and everything, were there in care homes?

Tobi: From the clients I work with, there wasn't. From what they've said, there wasn't that much guidance at all. People were figuring it out. I would say the closer we got into March, clients were telling me that the prices had shot up substantially. What type of masks should we get? It was a lot of confusion. There was a hell of a lot of confusion.

What wasn't reported

[36:30]

So as we move through the timeline, March, April, May, what were some of the things that people didn't see, that were going on in homes, that probably weren't reported in the media? What were some of the really heartbreaking stories that you experienced through working with many different care homes?

Jijo: I would say missing seeing their family members impacted them emotionally. I can tell you, from my experience, of more than two or three residents and how much they deteriorated from not having the regular visits that they enjoyed. There is a limit to what the staff can do to take that isolation away from the residents. That's how I've seen it. We have a limit, because with their families, their husband, their mother, whoever that is, it's a totally different relationship. Seeing them, talking to them, is a different feeling, isn't it? So missing that had a severe impact on residents. I can clearly say that.

Working on the front line

[37:50]

Tobi: And what about yourself? During that period, other people were locked down in their homes, maybe working from home, but you were on the front line, going out every day. How was that for you, and did your loved ones have any concerns about you going out, effectively potentially risking your life on a daily basis?

Jijo: In all fairness, it was horrible, because my wife was pregnant at the time. My parents are in India, and India, I'm not saying overreacted, but they suddenly closed and were forced into lockdown. The reason I'm saying this is because my parents were very worried at the time, because my wife was pregnant, and the situation in India, they were dealing with it in a completely different way, but in the UK it was a bit more of a relaxed approach. They were asking what kind of protection, what PPE we have, and we didn't have any, whereas in India the people working were all covered up, in the white gowns and the helmets and all those things. Ours was totally different here.

[39:01]

Even my colleagues were saying, you have to be really careful, because your wife is pregnant, and she also had a couple of miscarriages before. So that was emotionally quite difficult. That was a difficult, difficult time. How did I deal with it personally? I don't know. I just got going, not thinking a lot about it, and being cautious with hand washing, and telling the staff to make sure they do every possible thing to avoid transmission. There was nothing else, just having that confidence and getting going.

Clap for Carers

Tobi: And we commend you and all the other frontline staff for the brave work you've done. You guys are the true heroes. So what were your thoughts on the Clap for Carers initiative?

[40:05]

Jijo: Clapping for carers, I really like that thought, people coming out every Thursday, wasn't it, and clapping their hands for all the healthcare workers and frontline workers. It was a good feeling. But to be frank, what I noticed being a carer, and I'm only talking about nursing homes, I'm not talking about any other frontline work, being a carer in a nursing home is not that easy. It's hard work, especially when you're short-staffed and everything, and I don't think care is being valued enough in the care home sector. All of a sudden everybody's calling them heroes, but then, how many care staff got an extra payment, at least? I'm not talking about money, but how many of them got an extra payment that says, OK, we appreciate the work? I think clapping hands was too easy. It's a nice thought, I'm not saying it isn't, but the workload and the work atmosphere and everything got even worse during the pandemic. Even before, as I said, they needed a bit more recognition, at least to say, OK, that is a skilled job. It's still not, is it? So I like that concept of clapping for the carers and the frontline staff, but I think the care staff in the nursing homes need to be valued a bit more. That is one of the changes.

[42:00]

Tobi: That's a great point, and you were very frank then, and let's be frank: previously there was no mention of frontline workers and care staff, care staff specifically, and all of a sudden people are coming out and clapping their hands. So let's just talk about what people would truly want. What truly needs to change to truly value care staff?

Jijo: To me, I started my career as a care assistant, as I told you, in 2009, and I'd say they are the force that actually determines the quality of care in the nursing home. The manager's role is to guide them, to lead them, and the senior management's role is to set our vision as a company and get going. But the actual people who can make the difference in the residents' lives are the care staff. It's not enough. We need to have more energy and investment put towards the care staff, to develop their attitude and to develop a good culture in a care home. That's what I believe.

Catching COVID-19

[43:00]

Tobi: I hope it's OK if I share: you also contracted COVID-19, and your wife as well, and your newborn. When you told me, I was so shocked, and I'm sure it must have been horrific at home as well. So just tell us a little bit about that experience. How did it happen, how did you find out, what was going on behind closed doors?

Jijo: There is one employer that I do bank shifts for, so I go and help her, and I know that home very well. Because I was busy with Meet My Brian at the time, I was not doing a lot. I'd only go and do it when I didn't have any presentations and things like that. They had an outbreak at the time, most of the staff went off sick, so she asked me to come and cover a few shifts, because she couldn't get any nurses at the time, and they had to bring in a lot of agency staff from outside to cover the staff who went off sick.

Tobi: Absolutely. I know that period there were loads of care staff who were shielding, so we needed new care staff to come in, and you went in to support.

[44:20]

Jijo: Yes. I'm talking about December, so the second wave. I didn't expect that I would get it, but I got it, and then my wife got it, and my son got it. It was a hard and horrible time, and not just for me. I'm also talking about the organisation at the time, because more than 95% of the staff who worked there also got COVID at the time. Dealing with that fear, you've got COVID and you have to be careful, and you've got your wife and a little boy to look after. My wife had a temperature of more than 39.5, and at the same time my son also had a high temperature, and I was not in a position to move from my bed, because it was a heavy, bad, heavy body pain, and you can't even expect anybody to come and help you, because they can't enter your house, and you don't have much family here. So it was a very difficult situation to be in, I tell you that.

Tobi: How many months old was your little boy at the time?

Jijo: Four, four and a half.

Tobi: Wow.

Jijo: Yes, he had that temperature, so we had to call 111 and get their advice.

What needs to change now

[46:04]

Tobi: That must have been super terrifying. Having a newborn alone is a challenge for parents, let alone having COVID-19. We're recording this in February of 2021, we're in another national lockdown. What do you think needs to be done differently this time to protect more lives?

Jijo: I would say the one thing is that we have to live with this virus for a considerably long time, so we need to try and address this issue pragmatically, evidence-based. I think it's all about living with this virus and finding a practical way to manage the economy and our lives.

Tobi: And if you had a seat at the table and could speak to Boris Johnson, what would you tell him about the care sector?

[47:00]

Jijo: During these 33 years of my life, what I have realised is that loving somebody unconditionally, caring for other people unconditionally, is hard. It's not easy. I was reading a blog, and it was quite fascinating, because they said more than 60% of the workforce are disengaged. So imagine you're performing a caring job and that person is disengaged. You could be working in a petrol station, you could be working in a store, you could be disengaged and you can still do that job. But a skilled job, in a way, is a lot of things. A resident could have dementia and be having an anxiety attack. How much time are you genuinely spending with that patient to reassure them, and how much can you do it if you are disengaged? Do you know what I mean? You could take one thing from the shelf and give it to a customer. You could be 100% absent-minded, or maybe 95% disengaged, and you can still do it. You put that price on the till and somebody just taps their card and it's processed a payment. You could be thinking about thousands of things in your mind at the time.

[48:00]

But when you're really reassuring somebody, when you're trying to spend some time to make one patient eat and drink, with the intention to improve their nutritional intake, or to reassure them, to help them calm down, that is not easy. That's all I'm trying to say. So what we need is a good workforce, and we need good people. We need to spend some time, and supervision is supposed to be done in a way that, we need that change. We desperately need that change in the sector. It's not just down to Boris Johnson, it's down to everybody, but to Boris Johnson, at government level, I would say we need to class it as a skilled job, and we need to invest a lot of time and energy in making and creating a workforce that is caring and compassionate.

Closing thoughts

[49:03]

Tobi: I completely agree with Jijo and Zuva. We need to acknowledge the work carers have done in the past year with more than just clapping. We need to recognise them as skilled workers who make an indispensable contribution to thousands of lives on a daily basis, and we need to remunerate them accordingly. Zuva, Jijo, thank you so much for your brave and important work over the past year, and thank you at home for joining me on the show. Next week on the podcast, I meet Vic Rayner, the executive director of the National Care Forum. Vic and I had a fascinating conversation where we delve into her experience of the pandemic and how the National Care Forum responded. We discuss how important technology was for the sector, and Vic explains why we need a care home soap opera.

[50:08]

Before we go, there's just a few quick notes. Make sure you subscribe to the Tea with Tobi podcast so you automatically get notified about new episodes wherever you listen to podcasts. I want to know more about you and what you think of the show, so be sure to send me your comments at tobi@teawithtobi.com [now team@prosperwell.co.uk]. Please check out our website, teawithtobi.com, where you can find out more about me, Tobi, our sponsor Meet My Brian, and what we do at Smooth Digital. I've started a newsletter that goes straight into your inbox, so do sign up on our website as well at teawithtobi.com.

You've been listening to Tea with Tobi, the podcast presented by me, Tobi Alli-Usman, and produced by One Fine Play. From One Fine Play, James Bishop is the executive producer, Kasra Farouzia is the audio and visual engineer, Connor Foley is the producer and researcher, with additional creative support from Selena Christopher, Jade Cornish and Miranda Lopez. This episode was recorded by Connor Foley. Thanks for listening to Tea with Tobi.